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發表 由 G@ry 於 星期二 三月 20, 2007 8:03 am

老實說，asmobia壇友，小弟真的非常佩服你，你既有強勁的分析力，亦有道歉的勇氣！其實是一位很好很好的論壇成員；對於數理追求者，能解決一個難提固然興奮，但更為甚者，是覓得知音人，甚或能力比自己更高一層的人來討論討論.....希望你在忙碌之後，能在閒暇中撥冗來一來這裏吧...
雖然數理論壇不少，但能在這裏所能尋到的更不少....雖然這裏已經有很多高人，但好的會員/壇友仍是可遇不可求的....


asmobia 寫到:
這個題目我還有問題，這是 J+W 給我的啟發．
<HR>
先假設原問題每個海盜都是保命第一，
進而貪圖最多的寶石；
最後才考慮盡可能殺人．
現在請考慮下面兩個問題：
第１題，請問原問題簡化成一開始只有三個人，那最後的結果為何？
第２題，請問原問題簡化成一開始只有三個人，
　　　　並增加一個限制，那就是：
　　　　＂最後一個人若是拿不到十顆寶石，則他必須投反對票＂．
　　　　請問這又會有什麼結果？
綜觀以上兩題，對最後一人來說，
第２題明顯的給他加上更多限制，但反而使得他多拿寶石．
請問這是怎麼一回事？
在第１題時，請問最後一個人是否可以在一開始就宣告說：
＂自己拿不到十顆寶石，就寧可投反對票＂？
自己限制自己可不可以？
這個並沒有與他人合縱連橫，沒有會被背叛的危險．
況且依據第二題的解答，這確實是將自己利益增大的合理行為．
把自己手腳綁起來，反而獲得更多的寶石；
現在逆推法有沒有問題？適不適用於只有三個人的狀態？為什麼？


回歸伸延的寶石問題：
首先，對自己的限制必需是一個公開的共識，否則若其他人不知道的話，限剩一定不成功：若我是第一人，我不知道你有自我的限制，當然是給最少的給你，你要麼要一顆寶石，要麼不要...
故限制必定是公開的，便一定會有合縱連橫、背叛等等因素....

若最後一人宣告說："自已拿不到十顆寶石，則他必投反對票"，的話，中間(尾二)的一人也可以宣告說："自已只要拿九顆寶石，便會投贊成票"...然則最後一人也可以轉而要求：自己拿不到八顆寶石，則他必投反對票，而另外一人也可以如是：只要拿七顆....
這樣，由於大家能夠"議價"，故第一人的決定會取決於誰人可以取最少的寶石數目...在大家有既定的議價底線的情況：
e.g. 最後一人覺得五顆寶石也得不到...不如不拿，殺死第一人算吧... 而中間的一人當然可以給予更低的數量, e.g. 4顆寶石... "議價"既定，結果當然是預計得到的...最後一人便會眼白白看着自己一顆寶石也得不到....
故若最後一人沒有十足把握能以其反對票威脅第一人，則其設底線的作用只能令自己得不到寶石 => 骨氣與底線...要選哪呢？....
即使如此，中間一人還有手段可耍的：若如上述情況，第一人最後說了(96,4,0)的方案，到了投票的時候，最後一人當然會投反對，但中間一人會投甚麼？...當然也是反對：第一人投了下海，那100顆寶石還不全數是我的？... 所以有見及此，即使中間一人開出怎麼樣的"價位"也是不可信的，故方案一定是：(x,0,100-x)
那麼，第一人的方案就完完全全取決於第三人的"底線"：第三人當然可以放肆無忌憚地要求100顆寶石，但當然同一時間，第一人也可以有自己的底線... e.g. 我最多分30顆寶石給最後一人...等等...事情便會變成第一人及最後一人的"議價戰"...會有下列三種情況出現：
1. 議價配合，第一人按照議好的價提出方案，故完成分配。
2. 議價不妥，第一人提出任何一個不是(100,0,0)的方案，而最後一人只能有兩個取向：要麼贊成，不要骨氣要寶石；要麼反對，不要寶石要骨氣...
3. 議價配合，但第一人不按照議好的價提出方案，故最後一人陷入第2種情況的同一情境：要麼贊成要寶石；要麼反對要骨氣...
第一人的取態取決於最後一人對寶石的緊張程度，及其骨氣....而第三人的取態則為第一人重視命還是寶石...
這便涉及"議價"技巧、口才、兩者關係、當時心情、等等等等多不勝數的因素...

結論：由於中間一人無論如何也只會投反對，故方案只會是：(x,0,100-x)，而x不會是100 (除非第一人想死...)... 至於x的多少則取決於二人的議價能力、取態、等等等等... 但主動權在第一人身上(因為若方案提出了，最後一人只能接受或反對，而不能更改...)...

發表 由 J+W 於 星期二 三月 20, 2007 12:21 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#其實想辭職這件事不是一天兩天的事了，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#只是我一直找不到狠下心來離開的理由。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#網路成癮的症狀我也需要一帖猛藥來治，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#這次的事件剛好是個不錯的藉口或良藥。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所以我再次率性而為，給諸位添麻煩了！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我覺得論壇該由一些新人主導注入活力，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#畢竟我很早就失去活力，這樣子很不好！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#另外我覺得如果版主一職有任期制的話，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#失去活力這個問題倒是很好一併解決的。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這是最後一個建議了！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 asmobia 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 1:28 pm

yll 寫到:#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#也謝謝#ed_op#A href="mailto:G@ry"#ed_cl#G@ry#ed_op#/A#ed_cl#和KKBOX最後理性的回文#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這世上如果每個人都多一些#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#00bf60#ed_cl#幽默感#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#和#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#c00000#ed_cl#同理心#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#一定會更美麗#ed_op#IMG src="/phpBB2/richedit/smileys/yy04.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟欠缺幽默感，同理心，包容度與創造力．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#造成事件走向死胡通，心中深感抱歉．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#對於自己無禮硬加在 J+W 身上的種種污辱；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#只是顯得自己修養差，器量小；在下才是十足＂小人＂一個．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#冷靜下來後，小弟能不能原諒自己，都成問題；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#更遑論為大家擔當什麼責任．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#況且今年五月首爾那邊的研究計畫一但開始；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟可能也不能有空在來此胡鬧了，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所以 J+W 版主還是考慮一下，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請不要跟我這種講話不知輕重的人計較吧！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不過不能解決問題，不代表小弟不會添亂子．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這個題目我還有問題，這是 J+W 給我的啟發．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#先假設原問題每個海盜都是保命第一，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#進而貪圖最多的寶石；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#最後才考慮盡可能殺人．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#現在請考慮下面兩個問題：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第１題，請問原問題簡化成一開始只有三個人，那最後的結果為何？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第２題，請問原問題簡化成一開始只有三個人，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　　　　並增加一個限制，那就是：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　　　　＂最後一個人若是拿不到十顆寶石，則他#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#必須#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#投反對票＂．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　　　　請問這又會有什麼結果？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#綜觀以上兩題，對最後一人來說，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第２題明顯的給他加上更多限制，但反而使得他多拿寶石．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請問這是怎麼一回事？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在第１題時，請問最後一個人是否可以在一開始就宣告說：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂自己拿不到十顆寶石，就寧可投反對票＂？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#自己限制自己可不可以？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這個並沒有與他人合縱連橫，沒有會被背叛的危險．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#況且依據第二題的解答，這確實是將自己利益增大的合理行為．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#把自己手腳綁起來，反而獲得更多的寶石；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#現在逆推法有沒有問題？適不適用於只有三個人的狀態？為什麼？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 yll 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 12:08 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我之所以要插花提醒煙硝味的事#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#便是不願見到#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#因一個題目而造成一個或數個站上的朋友#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#本來可以每天很愉快地來看看有無可討論的題目 #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#變成不想來或不願意再來#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#因這種事已不止一次的發生...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#如今J+W辭職...更驗証了我的擔心#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0080ff#ed_cl#J+W我也要公開慰留你#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這個討論網，如果沒有你的用心經營#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#是不可能有現在的狀態的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#有事就去處理吧#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#版務我會多費心的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#別不好意思#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#也別擔心好嗎#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#如有幫得上忙的也請不要客氣#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#也謝謝#ed_op#A href="mailto:G@ry"#ed_cl#G@ry#ed_op#/A#ed_cl#和KKBOX最後理性的回文#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這世上如果每個人都多一些#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#00bf60#ed_cl#幽默感#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#和#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#c00000#ed_cl#同理心#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#一定會更美麗#ed_op#IMG src="/phpBB2/richedit/smileys/yy04.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 G@ry 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 8:36 am

這個主題小弟的發言不多...因為在前面的發言中已把小弟的推理及看法寫得很明白，亦不願不斷重複描述，更沒有逐點反駁的需要...(老實說..."逐點反駁"通常只會令問題exponentially上升...而不太會解決問題...)#ed_op#br#ed_cl#不過對於這次討論(小弟看過的論壇"罵戰"亦不少，我覺得這次是有某些看法重複及人身攻擊之嫌，但並不算過份...未能在小弟心中評為"罵戰")....尚算有些少意見：#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#&nbsp;
J+W 寫到:
super king 寫到:我覺得J大老是說這是選人才的題目..#ed_op#br#ed_cl#可是選人才可是客觀的,並不代表說(98,0,1,0,1)#ed_op#br#ed_cl#就不算是人才的條件!!!!#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#to yll :#ed_op#br#ed_cl#沒必要刪除!!!因為這就浪費大家的心思寫文章和追求真理了#ed_op#br#ed_cl#我反而希望更多人討論!!!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#不過很少會啦#ed_op#br#ed_cl#看到將多字的文章誰不頭痛???#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#u#ed_cl#我覺得J+W有點過份#ed_op#br#ed_cl#一開始說你的疑點和重點就好啦#ed_op#br#ed_cl#為什麼還要說設陷阱什麼等等呢?#ed_op#/u#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#這裡不是政治游戲!!!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#我們要的是真相!!!!!
#ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#你說的沒錯，關於這點，的確是我蓄意而為的#ed_op#/div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#這樣說吧，反問句及設問句也可算是"陷阱"吧...(皆是用來強迫地限制別人答案範圍的方法...)#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#縱　全主題，小弟覺得J+W大大的言詞態度並非如此"政治"...(雖然"陷阱"是他自已寫出來的)...那只是把言詞誇張了的攻擊/賭氣說話....#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#起因只是我對asmobia網友的第一印象極差#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#a href="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=154961&amp;highlight=#154961"#ed_cl#http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=154961&amp;highlight=#154961#ed_op#/a#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#
asmobia 寫到: #ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#好好的一個題目大家拿來腦筋急轉彎, 這裡的程度實在要加強.#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#第２印象也好不到哪去#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#a href="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=155551&amp;highlight=#155551"#ed_cl#http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=155551&amp;highlight=#155551#ed_op#/a#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#老實說，雖然小弟本身對asmobia的印象非常不錯，而且在另一個與此主題非常相似(有說是本題的延伸題目)的 "一萬個海盜"中小弟對其解法思路佩服得五體投地....但以事論事，asmobia在此主題內對J+W的發表語氣的確很不友善....若用比較差的說法，甚至可以說，罵戰的由來，他是#ed_op#span style="font-weight: bold;"#ed_cl#最大#ed_op#/span#ed_cl#的主因(即使是50.01%比49.99%, 只多0.02%, 論#ed_op#span style="font-weight: bold;"#ed_cl#最大#ed_op#/span#ed_cl#的, 還是50.01%)....#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#
asmobia 寫到: #ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#很多事情會讓你覺得不可思議，講一句不客氣的話，是因為你沒有真的看清問題．看的越遠，就不會對答案產生＂不爽＂，＂要革命＂，＂怎可以讓一號全部一鍋端走＂這種思想；因為接下來的掙扎都是在為人檯轎，自己只有變的更差，不會變的更好．#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#身為這場鬧劇的主謀者，我在此向諸位正式道歉#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#特別是asmobia、#ed_op#span class="name"#ed_cl##ed_op#a name="155690"#ed_cl##ed_op#/a#ed_cl##ed_op#font size="2"#ed_cl##ed_op#strong#ed_cl#KKBOX#ed_op#/strong#ed_cl##ed_op#/font#ed_cl##ed_op#font size="3"#ed_cl#、super king#ed_op#/font#ed_cl##ed_op#/span#ed_cl#網友。#ed_op#/div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#小弟在這文章的這一個位置......只能說一句....#ed_op#span style="font-weight: bold;"#ed_cl#天呀！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！...............#ed_op#/span#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#在這篇回應這個位置之後的數大段皆又因被小弟不小心地按錯了制....全軍覆沒了......#ed_op#br#ed_cl#我有完完全全地想立刻關掉了瀏覽器，今天一句話也不說的衝動....#ed_op#br#ed_cl#請原諒在此之後的回應中比較不全面的分析及比較欠佳的態度....#ed_op#br#ed_cl#(其實是因為忘了原來在這個位置的一大段回應...所以打了一大堆不明所以然來之物...)#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#在詳細的看過asmobia網友發過的所有文章後#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#（我喜歡由文章去推理一個人的個性）#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#我再次做了一個令你意外的決定#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#我要舉薦你當數學版及推理版的總版主#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#當然，個人的意願很重要，我並不強迫您#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#不過，你數學和推理的能力確確實實高出我許多#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#這是事實！#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#甚麼辭職？...我只看出你一定有違背當日當版主/版主群組長的承諾，但絕對看不出你#ed_op#font size="6"#ed_cl#絕對充分#ed_op#/font#ed_cl#辭請/#ed_op#font size="6"#ed_cl#一走了之#ed_op#/font#ed_cl#的理由：#ed_op#font size="1"#ed_cl#(註：原文是分了十多個點來寫的...不過不要問我那些點去了那兒...我也想知...唉.....)#ed_op#/font#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#1. 就算你覺得asmobia的數學及推理能力很高...並不代表他有作版主的處理版務及壇務能力(老實說，在其他的主題中看出，請asmobia作版主並無不可；但在這主題裏，小弟覺得asmobia態度、語氣、同理心、容納異見能力等等有待改進...)..更不代表與你的職位有任何相沖(你可以請他進版主群中、可以請他與你的版主群共同處理你的部份/全部版區、可以請他為見習版主、可以...)...這個理由絕對荒唐...#ed_op#br#ed_cl#2. 你把這作為請辭的理由之一，小弟覺得絕對有"拋波走佬"之嫌...說句難聽的：不負責任....人誰無錯(這個絕對最多是小過一個)？...若然有錯...要做的當然是補救/償...而不是#ed_op#font size="5"#ed_cl#立時放棄#ed_op#/font#ed_cl#...要補償？...好好地繼續處理你的版務....比之前處理得更好...這便是補償........小過一個便逃之夭夭？...太便宜了吧..... 拗不過便逃？....甚麼英雄好漢....#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#還有，ＹＬＬ站長　我同時也向您公開辭職#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#有一件事，我真的拖了很久#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#我得去完成它了！#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl#在我解決這件事後，如果有緣會再回來的。#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#3. 雖然小弟知道這是真的...你有事要去完成...會比較忙....但你可以找你的版主群組員/其他版主/壇主/資深會員/活躍版友來幫忙幫忙一下....若你真的是忙的不可開支，那這麼多詳盡的逐點回應的回覆那裏來的？....即使少一點點上來，沒人會去砍你全家的....走甚麼？走甚麼？走甚麼？？？？？？？.............#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#p.s. 語氣很不好...請見諒....這是小弟"一失click成千古恨"的後遺症....:(:(:(

發表 由 KKBOX 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 5:49 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"#ed_cl#即便題目沒有說明每個人都要利益最大化，在「#ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#。」的設定下，#ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: blue"#ed_cl#每個海盜要追求利益最大的假設並不算不合理#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#。#ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#而且「#ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#第一個海盜提出怎樣的分配方案才能夠使自己的收益最大化？#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl#」，在這個前提下，#ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: blue"#ed_cl#如果#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#(98.0.1.0.1)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#可以過關，#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#1#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#號沒有理由去選其他答案#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#如果還要考慮未來發展、以後是不是有盟友、是不是會讓其他們心生不滿等情境外的問題的話#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#…..#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#這個版應該討論邏輯推理而不是討論心理學或企業管理，那已經是題意外的東西了。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#一句申論題就可以推翻所有答案，因為申論題就是沒有標準答案。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#我也沒有認定「#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"#ed_cl#個海盜的思維模式『#ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#一定#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#』要一致#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#」#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#，我有提過，在#ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#相同的目標#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#下，應該都會得到相同的答案，就算不是用逆推法，所以我才請#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#J+W#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#用條列性的方法試試。這即是就算思維不同，仍舊會得到#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#(98.0.1.0.1)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#的答案。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#當然，如果要把#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"#ed_cl#「#ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#。」的設定解釋為就算#ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#沒拿到寶石或寶石變少也沒關係#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#的話，那根本無從討論起，為了以後的發展，大家和樂融融的#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#(20.20.20.20.20)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#，皆大歡喜#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#!!#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#這題目放在這個版不是為了探討每個網友的心理和人格吧#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#?#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#J+W#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#承認自己是蓄意而為，那我也必須跟#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#J+W#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#道歉，有些地方我措詞比較強烈，也是相同原因。『#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 標楷體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Arial Narrow'"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=3#ed_cl#討論很好，大家見解不同，才有討論空間，沒必要用不以為然的口氣來顯示自己的論點。』#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl#這是在我弟一篇所說的話。主要是因我不滿#ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US#ed_cl#J+W大喜歡用「#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #ff6600; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl#天阿#ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US#ed_cl#!你居然看不出來!#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl#」之類明顯輕蔑的語氣，而且容易在別人的文字用語上做文章，所以才會有後來的衍生，而且重點是，我認為#ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US#ed_cl#J+W提出的反例已經證實無法成立了。#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl#你提到，「#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#而５號海盜面對（死，２５，２５，#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: #ff6600"#ed_cl#２５#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl#，２５）這樣的方案，當然是很樂意接受的。儘管這４個海盜的思維模式不盡相同。最後的結果是（死，贊成，反對，#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: #ff6600"#ed_cl#贊成#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl#，贊成）２號的法案通過了」。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#聽起來很不錯，可是就像我之前一直強調的，#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=3#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#2#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號的提案根本不用去顧慮#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#!!#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#如果#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#(#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#死，#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#25.25.25.25)#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#可以通過，那#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#2#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號為啥不提#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#(#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#死#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#.50.0.#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: #ff6600"#ed_cl#50#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl#.0)?#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#4#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#25#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆就會答應，難道#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#50#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆他會反對#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#?2#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號拿到#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#50#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆不是更好#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#?#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號呢#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#?1#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆都沒有#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#!!#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#還害死了一個同伴#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#!!#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#「#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: blue"#ed_cl#拿#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#1#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#+#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#多一個同伴」和「#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: blue"#ed_cl#拿#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#0#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#顆#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#+#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#多死個同伴」，你覺得#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號會怎麼選#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#?#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#如果#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號的反對票可能讓自己該得的寶石不見，你認為#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#5#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#號會投反對票嗎#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl#?#ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 15pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: 新細明體; mso-font-kerning: 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#我的文章也一直強調，可以有其他答案，但前提必須是「#ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: red"#ed_cl#答案要合乎邏輯且沒有破綻#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#」，如果震撼彈的假設已經被證明無法成立，應該是去思索其他可能性，而不是在同一個圈圈打轉。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman"#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl#如果到最後是以辭去板主當收尾，我想這也不是各版友的本意，而且也不是這一連串討論所希望看到的結果。#ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體"#ed_cl#我不是這版的註冊版友，照理說我不該在這邊鬼扯一堆，如果造成版友的不愉快，我真的很抱歉。#ed_op#SPAN lang=EN-US#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 J+W 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 12:48 am

super king 寫到:我覺得J大老是說這是選人才的題目..#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#可是選人才可是客觀的,並不代表說(98,0,1,0,1)#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#就不算是人才的條件!!!!#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#to yll :#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#沒必要刪除!!!因為這就浪費大家的心思寫文章和追求真理了#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#我反而希望更多人討論!!!#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#不過很少會啦#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#看到將多字的文章誰不頭痛???#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#我覺得J+W有點過份#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#一開始說你的疑點和重點就好啦#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#為什麼還要說設陷阱什麼等等呢?#ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#這裡不是政治游戲!!!#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#我們要的是真相!!!!!
#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#你說的沒錯，關於這點，的確是我蓄意而為的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#起因只是我對asmobia網友的第一印象極差#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=154961&amp;highlight=#154961"#ed_cl#http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=154961&amp;highlight=#154961#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
asmobia 寫到: #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#好好的一個題目大家拿來腦筋急轉彎, 這裡的程度實在要加強.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第２印象也好不到哪去#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=155551&amp;highlight=#155551"#ed_cl#http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=155551&amp;highlight=#155551#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
asmobia 寫到: #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#很多事情會讓你覺得不可思議，講一句不客氣的話，是因為你沒有真的看清問題．看的越遠，就不會對答案產生＂不爽＂，＂要革命＂，＂怎可以讓一號全部一鍋端走＂這種思想；因為接下來的掙扎都是在為人檯轎，自己只有變的更差，不會變的更好．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#身為這場鬧劇的主謀者，我在此向諸位正式道歉#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#特別是asmobia、#ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#A name=155690#ed_cl##ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#KKBOX#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=3#ed_cl#、super king#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#網友。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在詳細的看過asmobia網友發過的所有文章後#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#（我喜歡由文章去推理一個人的個性）#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我再次做了一個令你意外的決定#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我要舉薦你當數學版及推理版的總版主#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#當然，個人的意願很重要，我並不強迫您#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不過，你數學和推理的能力確確實實高出我許多#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這是事實！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#還有，ＹＬＬ站長　我同時也向您公開辭職#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#有一件事，我真的拖了很久#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我得去完成它了！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在我解決這件事後，如果有緣會再回來的。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 super king 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 12:20 am

我覺得J大老是說這是選人才的題目..
可是選人才可是客觀的,並不代表說(98,0,1,0,1)
就不算是人才的條件!!!!

to yll :
沒必要刪除!!!因為這就浪費大家的心思寫文章和追求真理了
我反而希望更多人討論!!!
不過很少會啦
看到將多字的文章誰不頭痛???
我覺得J+W有點過份
一開始說你的疑點和重點就好啦
為什麼還要說設陷阱什麼等等呢?
這裡不是政治游戲!!!
我們要的是真相!!!!!

發表 由 asmobia 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 12:02 am

#ed_op#P#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#請證明#ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的這個假設在這道題目是成立的。#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#首先我要認錯，題目上沒有說＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#只有說：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#又說（問）：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#問題︰#ed_op#U#ed_cl#第一個海盜提出怎樣的分配方案才能夠使自己的收益最大化#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#本人說出：＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂這句話，是題目上找不到的．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#是一句錯誤的描述．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#題目只有說：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#這句話能不能證明#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#？#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#喔！J+W 找到英文版的：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Five pirates have 100 gold coins. they have to divide up the loot. in order of seniority (suppose pirate 5 is most senior, pirate 1 is least senior), the most senior pirate proposes a distribution of the loot. they vote and if at least 50% accept the proposal, the loot is divided as proposed. otherwise the most senior pirate is executed, and they start over again with the next senior pirate. what solution does the most senior pirate propose? #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#Assume they are very intelligent and extremely greedy (and that they would prefer not to die). #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#They also aren't going to cap anyone unless the vote says so. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這句話能不能證明#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#？#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不能！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#就算題目裡真的有＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂這句話，一個字都不差，你都不能說服 J+W 承認＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這是小弟發本文的原因．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#從文章主旨內容來看，各位可以發現以下一個事實：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#１，在第二頁裡，J+W 的文章講的是震撼彈．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#２，在第三頁裡，J+W 的文章講的是因果顛倒．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#３，在第四頁裡，J+W 找到出路了，他講的是每個人想得不一樣．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#事實上，他在第一頁裡就已經出絕招了；那就是利益&nbsp;≠&nbsp; 寶石．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請各位看看小弟在第一頁的文章（第十五樓與第十七樓），小弟當場就認輸了．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟對於這種申論題意的工作是絕對不敢插手的，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#J+W 只要一直躲在解釋題意的文字遊戲裡，小弟絕對不是他的對手．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#絕對只能緊緊追隨他的創意．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#誰知道 J+W 在第二頁跳出來丟震撼彈，第三頁出來因果顛倒；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這才被眾版友抓包錯誤邏輯，出盡洋相；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#要是他能夠持續地在申論題裡繞小圈子，誰能說他錯呢？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#也就是說，只要 J+W 還堅持利益&nbsp;≠&nbsp; 寶石，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#就算題目裡真的有＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂這句話，一個字都不差，你都不能說服 J+W 承認＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#題目裡面雖然有：#ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#＂每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。＂#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#但是誰能說服 J+W 說，＂#ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#理智的判斷得失#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#＂這話，指的是先保命，然後多貪寶石呢？在＂利益&nbsp;≠&nbsp; 寶石＂的絕招下，又有誰能判斷得失呢？連得失都不能判斷，J+W 還能出錯嗎？終於不會了吧！#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#換句話說，當 J+W&nbsp;看到（死，死，死，死，死）這種正解時，還能泰然自若，覺得很合自己的邏輯．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#各位看官，您說小弟在第一頁立刻認輸，不敢和 J+W&nbsp;去申論題意，解釋題意，是不是聰明？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#既然小弟錯了，就一定要道歉；文章開頭一次，文章結尾一次．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟要認錯，因為題目上沒有說#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#這是小弟說了一句題目上沒有的話．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#但是題目的內涵，有沒有暗示這句話，這不是我研究的範圍．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#我不敢作申論題，並不代表別的版友不敢作．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#小弟只是對錯誤引用題目原文而道歉，#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#並不代表原文裡沒有指出＂每個人要追求利益的最大化＂這個精神．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#請打算要造謠生事的人，不要再拿說話算話的 asmobia&nbsp;當神主牌．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#想要反對＂每個人要追求利益的最大化＂這個精神；#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#請自己提出理由．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#小弟本人認為題目原文：#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#當然指是每個人要追求利益的最大化，當然就是先保命，再多拿寶石．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#海盜還相親相愛？相敬如賓？能夠不死的話，誰不多拿寶石？#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#也懇請各位大大若是不嫌傷眼，能多糾舉小弟的錯誤；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#打了幾千字，只出一個錯？我都不相信我能這樣．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#大家多多糾舉，小弟才能不會在版上留下貽害後人的錯誤邏輯．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 super king 於 星期日 三月 18, 2007 12:02 am

簡略地看了piny得文章...
如果沒有誤會他的意思的話...
每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇
聰明的人當然想把利益越大化越好啦!!!
難道有更好的利益不要嗎?
除非他是笨蛋啦~~

身為17歲的中學生都知道
有些事,畫公仔都不用畫出腸來的!!!
如果J大不認同,請給個理由我為何他們不是追求利益最大化
別告訴我問題沒寫就不是噢!!!

發表 由 J+W 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 11:46 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#A name=155690#ed_cl##ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#KKBOX　網友#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#　　#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#我已經把題目放大了#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#，很仔細的檢視過題目了，很確定題目裡頭#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#根本沒有【#ed_op#FONT face=新細明體 color=#ff0000#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#】和【#ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#每個人要追求利益的最大化#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#】#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#這類的話。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#　　現在我就舉一個５號海盜投反對票會通過的例子。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#在１號海盜提出（９８，０，１，０，１）這個方案#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#被５號海盜投反對票，而丟入海底餵鯊魚後。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#在不知道其他３個海盜思維模式的情況之下#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#２號海盜的資訊是封閉的。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#另外，題目並沒有明確的提到可不可以私下結盟#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#這一點也就變成了不確定的因素#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#所以２號海盜在提案時，是相當謹慎的。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#結果２號海盜做出了（死，２５，２５，２５，２５）#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#這樣的令人訝異的提案#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#∵每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#∴剩下來的３、４、５號海盜也能明白２號海盜的意圖了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#２號海盜的意圖：#ed_op#U#ed_cl#選擇退一步，明則保身#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#失：放棄眼前可以最多獲得９９顆寶石的機會#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#得：（１）保住生命#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#　　（２）獲得３個朋友或者說是減少３個敵人#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#當然３號海盜可以選擇否決２號海盜的提案#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#繼續像１號一樣提出自肥的提案#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#可是，如果３號海盜讓５號海盜損失獲得２０顆鑽石的機會#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#那勢必要提出高於２０顆鑽石的提案。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#貪心的#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#３號海盜左右為難。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#不，還是把２號海盜拉下來好了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#儘管４號海盜有#ed_op#U#ed_cl#絕不會死的優勢#ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#和#ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#最多可以獲得１００顆鑽石的最佳機會#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#但是（死，２５，２５，２５，２５）#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#原本預計２號海盜會提出的（死，９６，０，１，０）相比#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#這樣的方案的確好的多了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#不過，我有必要賣他面子嗎？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#可是，由１顆到２５顆，５號海盜還會反對這個方案嗎？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#很明顯不，５號海盜是最沒有機會獲得鑽石的人阿#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#那，我有必要和其他人撕破臉嗎？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#而５號海盜面對（死，２５，２５，２５，２５）這樣的方案#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#當然是很樂意接受的。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#儘管這４個海盜的思維模式不盡相同。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#最後的結果是（死，贊成，反對，贊成，贊成）#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#２號的法案通過了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#當然，這只是其中的一種可能性。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#不過，卻足以推翻（９８，０，１，０，１）鐵定會過的迷思了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#當然，你也可以反對他。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#不過，你能證明這樣的情況不會發生嗎？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#我說過，這是一道#ed_op#U#ed_cl#甄選人才的申論題#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#，重點不只是申論題。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#另一個重點是#ed_op#U#ed_cl#可以由你的提案來看出這個人才的一些特質#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#公司的面試人員可以這樣認為#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#提出（９８，０，１，０，１）這樣方案的人，確實是精於分析的人才#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#但缺點是【自以為是】、【昧於現實】、【短視近利】#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#寧可想盡辦法讓自己獲得眼前的最大利益#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#卻同時豎立了４個新敵人。#ed_op#U#ed_cl#這樣的人才不能擔任要職#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#。#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl#為何打這段話，有心人可以自行揣摩。也可以一笑置之。#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl#

發表 由 piny 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 11:14 pm

J+W 寫到:#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#ＴＯ　piny#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這題和黑帽白帽儘管類似，不過卻有１個關鍵的不同。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這５個海盜和７個#ed_op#FONT size=6#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#同時#ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#猜出帽色的情況不同。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我們並不能只做#ed_op#U#ed_cl#假設前提應該是每個人的思維邏輯都一致#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的假設。因為只做這樣的假設，當然就排除了#ed_op#U#ed_cl#這５個海盜的思維邏輯不盡相同的情況#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#。也就失之偏頗。#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#另外，#ed_op#U#ed_cl#這５個海盜的思維邏輯不盡相同的情況#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#，有人能依據題目說明或證明這情況不存在嗎？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#難道是因為難以討論，所以不予討論嗎？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#提出幾點看法 小弟用詞不周之處 尚祈見諒#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#版主認為這題並非全數人皆追求利益極大，且每個人思維邏輯不一致#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#故認為(20,20,20,20,20)應為最適解#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#但是若將利益僅限於鑽石，很顯然20顆比另一個多數人認為的正解差距頗大#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#曾經有一個例子 將一杯未開封的洗衣精(1000ml)倒進一個量杯裡(700ml)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請問量杯會滿出來嗎？為什麼？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#有一個人如此回答，不會，因為那個洗衣精並未開封#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#他針對每個題意做解釋，的確題目並沒有說#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#「我們將這瓶未開封的洗衣精(1000ml)打開，然後倒進.....」#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所以他的邏輯應該沒錯#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟的感覺是 有些數學上的問題 的確可能簡化一些大多數人認同的假設去設題#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在一些基礎假設上認知不同時 也很難說倒底是誰對誰錯#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#可是若這種問題是出現在專門討論數學邏輯的論壇上 那當然其邏輯假設就應該是大多數人所認同的吧 至多解題時先聲明自己的假設有如下#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#針對該題 即認為全數人都追求極大是默許的假設之一#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這與大多數人認為洗衣精的題目不必要明說要把蓋子打開一樣(除非問題者很明顯想要得到一些腦筋急轉彎之類的回答)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所以我們因為認為有這個假設 所以才會推論出(98,0,1,0,1)之結論#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第二點 若真的並非全數人都追求極大化 且小弟認為這亦不可能是申論題型式下#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#則會有統一的正解嗎#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#姑不論未來合作這種題意外的闡釋#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#則一號怎能奢望(20,20,20,20,20)會通過呢(而且看起來會一致通過？)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(死,25,25,25,25)不是更合其他四人嗎#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這與一號自己不拿任何一顆 另外拿自己私下搶來的三百顆來分配一樣，為保住一命，這也是符合利益極大的可能答案之一#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(0,100,100,100,100)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不過很顯然的 就邏輯的角度上想 這應該也非設題者想要獲取的答案#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第三點#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#再舉白帽黑帽問題 此七人同時回答的可能性#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#其實隱含著此七人思維一致的假設 但題目絕對不太可能講的那麼明顯#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#若這個假設並非設題者所認為理應當然#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#則當六人白帽一人戴黑帽的情況(設該戴黑帽者為甲)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#則甲事實上是看到六個白帽 其他六人則是看到一黑五白#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#若其他六人沒辦法比甲更快認清自己戴白帽的事實 那將有可能七人同時覺得自己都是白的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#那麼 我們是否可以說此七人同時回答的情況應也包含六白一黑的狀況#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(前提是那個戴黑帽的人並非與其他六人思維一致，以致於他稍微判斷早了點...)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不太會打標點符號 造成閱讀困難 真的是很不好意思#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我想表達的是 在題意認知的前提就已不同 事實上已無爭論的必要 因為兩方看起來都是對的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#謝謝大家有空讀完小弟的看法#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 yll 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 10:36 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#只希望大家都能理性討論#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不要再有攻擊的言語啊#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#「手把青秧插滿田，低頭便見水中天；心地清淨方為道，退步原來是向前。」#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0080ff#ed_cl#期待各位再一起愉悅地在版上討論各種問題#ed_op#IMG src="/phpBB2/richedit/smileys/aa99.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 J+W 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 10:26 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl#ＴＯ　ＹＬＬ站長：#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl#　　先讓它有個結果吧！就快了。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl#沒有結果，這場戲可能還會拍續集！#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl#　　當然，如果你執意，我沒有理由反對。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 yll 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 10:21 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#從上星期日發燒 #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#吃了藥退燒 #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#不吃又燒... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#到昨日體溫才恢復正常...共6天... #ed_op#IMG alt="" src="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/images/smiles/yy52.gif" border=0#ed_cl# #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#偏偏這星期事情又特別的多 #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#回到版上就看到有煙硝味????#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#容我說一句 #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#原都只是題目的同好人#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#就回歸題目 #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不要針對個人#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#各退一步好嗎?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這是討論的地方#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#不是吵架的地方啊#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#考慮移除或封鎖此主題中...#ed_op#IMG src="http://yll.loxa.edu.tw/phpBB2/richedit/smileys//yy21.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 J+W 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 10:11 pm

asmobia 寫到:#ed_op#P#ed_cl#請各位看官瞧瞧，J+W 終於要出絕招了！#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#請證明#ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的這個假設在這道題目是成立的。#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#題目上有明確的說過：#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#，對不對？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這難道不就告訴我們每個人的思維模式一樣嗎？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#各位看官，妳們錯了！就 J+W 的邏輯裡，利益 ≠ 寶石啊！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#利益的定義是申論題啊！你看 J+W 高不高明？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl#我把題目的字體放大了#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl#你再仔細看看哪裡有這句話？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=4#ed_cl#It's funny...#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#據統計，在美國，在20分鐘內能回答出這道題的人，平均年薪在8萬美金以上。#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#5個海盜搶到了100顆寶石，每一顆都一樣的大小和價值#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#他們決定這麼分︰#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#1.抽簽決定自己的號碼（1，2，3，4，5）#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#2.首先，由1號提出分配方案，然後大家5人進行表決，且僅當半數或超過半數#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#　 的人同意時，按照他的提案進行分配，否則將被扔入大海喂鯊魚。#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#3.如果1號死後，再由2號提出分配方案，然後大家4人進行表決，且僅當半數#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#　 或超過半數人同意時，按照他的提案進行分配，否則將被扔入大海餵鯊魚。#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#4.以次類推.......#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#問題︰#ed_op#U#ed_cl#第一個海盜提出怎樣的分配方案才能夠使自己的收益最大化#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#？#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#加油嚕，看你們有沒有辦法拿到美金8萬元的薪水#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#答案在下面，別急！動動腦，試試看#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl#題目說的是第一個海盜不是每個人，#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#是#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#你【自以為是】#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#的認為是#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#每個人要追求利益最大化。#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 super king 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 2:32 pm

J+W 寫到:討論至此，
相信諸位已經知道（９８，０，１，０，１） 這樣的方案之所以會成立的其中一個原因就是基於5個海盜思維模式一致的這個假設
（Ａ）如果你認為我說的不對那請證明不需這個假設（９８，０，１，０，１）還是會成立！
（Ｂ）如果你認為上面那段話是對的請證明５個海盜思維模式一致的這個假設在這道題目是成立的。
如果你這兩件事都無法做到，我真的很好奇，你們認定（９８，０，１，０，１）是正解的理由何在？



據統計，在美國，在20分鐘內能回答出這道題的人，平均年薪在8萬美金以上。


5個海盜搶到了100顆寶石，每一顆都一樣的大小和價值
他們決定這麼分︰

1.抽簽決定自己的號碼（1，2，3，4，5）

2.首先，由1號提出分配方案，然後大家5人進行表決，且僅當半數或超過半數
　 的人同意時，按照他的提案進行分配，否則將被扔入大海喂鯊魚。

3.如果1號死後，再由2號提出分配方案，然後大家4人進行表決，且僅當半數
　 或超過半數人同意時，按照他的提案進行分配，否則將被扔入大海餵鯊魚。

4.以次類推.......

條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。

問題︰第一個海盜提出怎樣的分配方案才能夠使自己的收益最大化？


要知道,題目說的是海盜!!! 而不是機器人!!!  不懂
不可能思維一樣!!!
但要成立(98﹐0﹐1﹐0﹐1)這個答案
只要目的一樣就行了,就是要拿越多的寶石越好而且保命!!!
每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇
如果3和5不讚同,他們就會連一個都沒有!!!
這我也不多說了asmobia寫得非常清楚!!

我也想補充一些不關於(98,0,1,0,1)的事
之前J+W給的昌巴討論網,
http://www.mathland.idv.tw/talkover/memo.asp?srcid=8720&bname=ASP
三年前的事了
裡面剛開始J+W認為答案是(32﹐34﹐34﹐0﹐0)
過後就是認為答案是(20﹐20﹐20﹐20﹐20)
我不明白為何在討論(98﹐0﹐1﹐0﹐1)時,為何他還給這個
(32﹐34﹐34﹐0﹐0)的文章我們看,連他都覺得不對
為什麼還要給我們看呢﹖
為了要證明我們陷入盲點?

可是我倒認為這個更多盲點呢﹗﹗﹗﹗
他怎麼會提這麼多盲點的答案給我們看?
相信他自己都知道盲點在哪!!!
所以為免我們反駮,就說不要無中生有!!!!
後來他改變想法,說了更讓我笑翻了的
答案(20,20,20,20,20)
這個答案一點都不理智!!!
何為未來的利益??
繼續搶劫??
失敗??死刑    
成功??也未必可以賺回之前的損失
同時間,他反駮了某人的(96﹐0﹐1﹐0﹐3)的答案
理由他寫在裡面了,大家可看看
(4)人性是貪婪的,有理智的海盜更是,如果有更好的選擇,
這個理由也可以說明海盜的目的一致
越多越好,不可能未來的利益
此外,我還要反對asmobia的言論
第五個海盜不應該喻為J+W
他應該是天!!!!
他喜歡公平﹗﹗﹗
所有他的答案是平分!!!
而且他認為認同別人的答案和可笑
自己答案是對的!!!我們這些平民應該認同他!!!
我要糾正J+W的想法!!!
即使你20分鐘內想出也沒有用
你不可能是平均年薪在8萬美金以上的人
因為你的答案是不理智的!!!

老實說,我也蠻同情J+W,因為目前我沒看到有人讚同
他的不理智言論!!!J+W你可是獨一無二的,無人可以取代!!!!

其實我還有很多要說,可是太多了,說不完
希望我見到的不是鬼天 ,是理智的人 保祐

發表 由 asmobia 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 9:09 am

#ed_op#P#ed_cl#請各位看官瞧瞧，J+W 終於要出絕招了！#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#請證明#ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#５個海盜思維模式一致#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的這個假設在這道題目是成立的。#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRIKE#ed_cl#題目上有明確的說過：#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#每個人#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#要追求#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#利益的最大化#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#，對不對？#ed_op#/STRIKE#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#上句錯！沒有說過；下面是原題：#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000 size=5#ed_cl#條件︰每個海盜都是很聰明的人，都能很理智的判斷得失，從而做出選擇。 #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#問題︰第一個海盜提出怎樣的分配方案才能夠使自己的收益最大化？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這難道不就告訴我們每個人的思維模式一樣嗎？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#各位看官，妳們錯了！就 J+W 的邏輯裡，利益 ≠ 寶石啊！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#利益的定義是申論題啊！你看 J+W 高不高明？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟延伸 J+W 的邏輯，創出了下面的解題法：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第一個海盜也兼差作神父，他主張要將贓物歸還，然後大家開始贖罪之旅．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#當然，他的提案太苦了，所以他被做掉了．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#然而，他是為了榮耀主才去世的，可以算是殉道者；他的死完全符合他的利益．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#你看，他的靈魂不就微笑著飛向天堂了嗎？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第二個是臥底的熱血警察，他主張要將大家繩之以法，這個提案當然通不過喽．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#然而，他是為了國家人民才殉職的，他成了烈士，鑄成了銅像；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#死後有國旗覆棺，遺族有終身優待，本人還名留青史，精神不朽！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所謂死有重於泰山，這太符合他的利益啦！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第三個是個守財奴，你要他主動把錢分給別人，比要他死還難受．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#接下來他一輩子都會耿耿於懷，再也沒有一天快樂．．．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#所以他只要求能夠抱著這些亮晶晶的寶石，然後戴著微笑讓你處死．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#這守財奴能擁抱著所有的寶石而死，那真是死了也幸福呀！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#第四個是一個憂鬱症患者，本來就不打算活了；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#當初搶銀樓時就一直希望被保全開槍打死算了，可惜天不從人願；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#現在難得有人可以幫他結束生命，你看他樂的！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#最後一位是 J+W ，他是一個全方位的思考者；也是一個想法沒有盲點的完人！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂誰說最後一個人不能投反對票的？妳們有盲點，看我的震撼彈！怎樣！？＂#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#說完他就飛身投入海中．．．．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在一旁觀看的 asmobia 終於見識到了傳說中的（死，死，死，死，死）的正解．．．從此出家念佛，一輩子不敢再談邏輯兩字．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#各位知道 J+W 對於自己的邏輯延伸出的這個故事有何反應？只有一句話：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
J+W 寫到: #ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=3#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#看樣子，你沒辦法證明，這文章沒有仔細回覆的必要！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#天啊！對於自己的邏輯竟然能得出（死，死，死，死，死）這種方案，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#還能處變不驚！這修養確實是深厚，不知道是地殼厚，還是臉皮厚？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 asmobia 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 8:43 am

super king 寫到:{說真的，你要辯解之前，真的要先確認自己的立場，不要正方反方的言論都拿來引用，然後說「不是我說的」。}#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#對於KKBOX的論點,我非常贊成!!!#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#最重要是自己的觀點,別時常捉住對方的小細節錯誤說一大堆#ed_op#BR#ed_cl#好像合約有小小特別細節就可以改變一切這樣#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#ps﹕不好意思,理應可以把三個文章一起發表,但每次發表後才想到要寫...
#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#給 Super King 大大：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　有關 J+W 所謂引述我的言論，什麼設了一個局讓我跳之類的．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　小弟真誠的拜請您浪費一點時間，看看第二頁第十四篇，小弟的拙作．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　看完以後，再請看下一篇 J+W&nbsp;的回應．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　會發現小弟的#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#結論#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#，硬生生的被 J+W 拗成#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#前提#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　您就會發現別說是＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#捉住對方的小細節錯誤說一大堆#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂了；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　J+W 真正的功夫在於：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#縱然妳沒說錯，J+W 也要#ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#假裝#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#你說錯，他自我催眠的功夫是到了家．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　好，J+W 說錯沒關係；關鍵是他假裝你說錯之後，還會自high不已的來妳面前質問妳！小弟就見識過這個．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　被質問也就算了；妳一定會用最嚴謹的邏輯告訴他，他是因果顛倒，超越光速了；是不是？溝通可以解除誤會嘛！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　但糟糕的是，當他聽到了自己搞錯＂假設＂與＂結論＂之後，就把耳朵掩起來了；寧可躲在自己的荒謬小世界裡向大家說誰誰誰錯了，也不能接受自己因果顛倒的事實．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　同樣的，您是小弟極其佩服的版友之一． J 某偏偏要命令您和我道歉？這是怎麼回事？對於 J 某與小弟之間的衝突，延燒的您與 KKBOX 版友，小弟才是應該要和各位道歉．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　我不能代表 KKBOX 版友，因為 KKBOX 也是我很佩服的一位版友，我不敢妄稱我能知道他心中的想法；但是依據 KKBOX&nbsp; 最近一次的文章看來，他已經看出 J+W 是在因果顛倒，是在造謠了．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#　在這裡，我要感謝 KKBOX 大，為了小弟的清白，浪費時間去翻小弟之前的文章，發現 J+W 能將最基本的＂假設歸謬法＂硬抝成這樣．真是印證了下面這句話：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#縱然妳沒說錯，J+W 也要#ed_op#FONT color=#ff0000#ed_cl#假裝#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#你說錯，他自我催眠的功夫是到了家．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

發表 由 asmobia 於 星期六 三月 17, 2007 6:36 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#c00000#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#鄭重宣告：請版友們防範造謠小人！#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#c00000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#最近版上有小人認為我既然說＂第一號不會死＂，#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#然後質疑我為什麼在逆推法裡假設＂假設現在剩下最後兩人時．．＂#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#最先我以為是那個小人邏輯不清，#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#所以我在當天，針對他親口直接問我的問題，#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#寫了兩篇回答，分別是第三頁第七篇與第十八篇．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#告訴他不要倒因為果，超越光速．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#針對我的第一篇回答，他只丟下一句：＂我沒有倒因為果＂，就算完了．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#沒有原因，沒有理由，他說了算．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#我很慚愧自己沒有表達清楚，所以我發了第二篇較詳細的回答#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#（敬愛的 Super King&nbsp;大大，對不起，對於某些人我實在沒有能力言簡意賅&nbsp;）．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#各位猜猜那個造謠小人怎麼說？我這麼努力，在當天就立刻多次回答他的問題，各位猜他怎麼講？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#他躲起來了，不肯面對了！#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#他不是沒時間喔！同一時間他還花了一堆時間去欺騙 KKBOX&nbsp; 版友與 Super King 版友，還拿這件事來為他背書，堵別人的嘴？！#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#花費同樣的時間裡；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#他寧可曲解我的話，並拿來錯誤的引用，好試著誤導其他人．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#他也不願意去看看我的回答；這回答還是依據他的要求咧！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#800000#ed_cl#所有被造謠小人試圖欺騙的版友，我知道各位肯定不會相信小人的話．#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#800000#ed_cl#但是各位一定有興趣看看＂第一號不會死＂這句話是怎樣被造謠的吧！#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#800000#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#請看第二頁第十四篇，小弟於三月十五日早晨五點二十七分的文章：#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#造謠小人引用了一篇（３２，３４，３４，０，０）的可笑文件之後，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟用逆推法解釋說一號可以不要那麼畏懼，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#大可以提出（９８，０，１，０，１）這方案，也不用擔心會死．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#小弟在嘮叨將近三百字之後，在#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#最後一行#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#作出結論：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#一號不會死，除非你改題目．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請注意，是最後一行喔！後面連簽名檔都沒有！這難道不是一個#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#結論#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#嗎！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#緊接著下一篇文章，就是造謠者於當天下午兩點零八分引述我的#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#一號不會死，除非你改題目．#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂這句話．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#進而開始欺騙 KKBOX，Super King 等版眾：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#在對 KKBOX 大大的文章裡，還利用這句話來質疑，嘲笑逆推法．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#卻完全＂忘記＂了這句話正是逆推法的結論；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#說他是＂忘記＂還算是對他人格的褒揚呢！各位認為呢？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#別忙，還有可笑的；在對 KKBOX 大大的文章裡，造謠小人還說：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=PMingLiu color=#ff0000 size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=PMingLiu color=#ff0000 size=2#ed_cl#既然你認同#ed_op#U#ed_cl#asmobia網友#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的邏輯，那你能不能說明為何在#ed_op#U#ed_cl#１號海盜不會死了#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#的前提下，２號海盜還可以提案？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=PMingLiu color=#ff0000 size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#請注意，在他說出這種移花接木的謊言之前；他有問過我同樣的問題，我立刻在第三頁以兩篇專文（第七與第十八）直接回答他這問題（基本上，我還未曾迴避他的問題過．）；我在專文裡告訴他不要再#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#00bf60#ed_cl#倒因為果#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#了．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#一號海盜不會死#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂不是#ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#前提#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl#，是我三百字文章的最後一句，是#ed_op#FONT color=#00bf60#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#結果#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#，#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#是逆推法的結果，是反證法的結果．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#二號海盜提案#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂，＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#三號海盜提案#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂，＂#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#四號海盜提案#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#＂是#ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#00bf60#ed_cl#假設#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#是逆推法的假設，是反證法的假設．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#上面的話我在第三頁已經回答過造謠小人多次了，還是他親自問我的咧！#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#你說他會沒看到？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#自己問別人，別人發兩篇專文在當天就回答妳，你會沒看到？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#他迴避了我的回答，本來我以為他沒有時間；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#但明顯的他後來寧可浪費時間來專心曲解我的話，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#試圖用這謠言來堵住 KKBOX 與 Super King 的嘴；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#避免這兩位比我更聰明的人揭穿他荒謬的精神面貌．．．．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#您說他這是不是故意造謠？#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#HR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#當然我們不能一言堂，我們要光明正大讓他也有機會辯駁：#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#我在上一篇文章公開歡迎 J+W 用抄家滅族式，一字一句的手段去查我所有的文件；#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#看看我何時說過　#ed_op#FONT face=PMingLiu color=#ff0000 size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl#１號海盜不會死了#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#　#ed_op#FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3#ed_cl#是前題或相似的話？#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#找到我願意死！找不到沒關係，就算了，#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#他輸的機會是１００％，我要是再提出什麼賠償之類的，他大概又躲起來了．#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

 

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